American Diplomat podcast, hosted by Arizona State University, posted on 8 May 2025 a 40-minute program titled "Is the Chaos at State Over?" with Tibor Nagy, a retired career Foreign Service Officer who served as assistant secretary of state for African affairs in the first Trump administration and for the first three months of the current Trump administration as the acting undersecretary of state for management.
The podcast focused on reorganization and reform of the State Department and Foreign Service. The DOGE team showed up early in the administration before Secretary of State Marco Rubio's small staff could get their feet on the ground. This was followed by an avalanche of executive orders from the White House. Chaos followed. Rubio demonstrated his independence from DOGE early when he said State Department personnel did not have to respond to its request for a list of five things each employee had accomplished in the past week.
Tibor explained that USAID will be folded into the State Department, although many questions remain as to how its functions will be organized. He acknowledged that the way USAID was dismantled by DOGE was chaotic and heartless. There were initially huge screwups, but these have been largely overcome.
Tibor argues that the chaos is over in the State Department now that DOGE has moved on. He added that it makes sense to combine some of the functions that were previously done in separate offices. There was too much duplication and inefficiency.
When asked what the Department of State will look like at the end of the Trump administration, he thought it would be better prepared to deal with the foreign policy issues the United States faces in the 21st century. Artificial intelligence and new technology are changing the way the Department will operate and it is essential to adapt to the new situation.
When asked about closing embassies and consulates, Tibor said the US diplomatic presence should be as universal as possible but added it is not necessary to have an embassy everywhere. He suggested there is no need, for example, to have an embassy in Luxembourg, Sao Tome and Principe, and the Comoro Islands. Some embassies are overstaffed and can be reduced in size while others may be short staffed.
Tibor admitted that morale in the State Department at the beginning of this process was terrible, but suggested much of the uncertainty has been removed and morale is now much improved.
Comment: While there are clearly components of the State Department that need reorganization and reform, Tibor is far more optimistic than I am that the changes currently underway will by the end of the Trump administration result in a more efficient and effective foreign policy process.
